Li Xin： You have been teaching in China for many years. What do you think is the most interesting thing that attracts you in this career？
Prof. Bork： I first taught here in China during 1993 to 1994 in Foreign Affairs College and then I went back to United States. In 1996， I came back in August so this is the second time I taught in China.
Well， I enjoy history and I enjoy teaching history. So the best way to use your knowledge is to teach. I try to get students involved and let them become more interested in a subject matter and plus I try to present my material in a critical way to stimulate thinking. I also try to teach students how to think instead of accept. You know if you memorize something， after the examination you're gonna forget it. But if I teach students how to think， that's tool they can use in their future learning.
Li： If you don't mind could you recall what attracted you to China？
Prof. Bork： Well， I'd say I've been interested in China for a very long time. When I was about six years old， I was just interested in China. I always followed world events. I thought I would come to China one day. In fact when Nixon came to China I was about thirteen or fourteen years old. I told my mother that I was going to come to China. Your generation doesn't remember this， but that was cold-war period going towards a close for both countries. So saying that was a big thing. I was very optimistic and my optimism proved to be pretty right as a fourteen years old.
Li： I understand your wife has a Chinese culture background. What cultural differences do you usually encounter in your marriage life？
Prof. Bork： Yeah， we encounter many cultural differences. For example， I think my wife feels more responsible about our daughter than I do. She feels that she'd put a lot of efforts on our daughter. As an American and as a man too， I don't necessarily feel that I have to put that much energy into my child. We American don't put our efforts into children the same way as Chinese do. That's out of different cultural experiences.
Li： In teaching your daughter to speak both Chinese and English， what experience could you share with the large number of Chinese parents who are eager to bring up their children bilingually？
Prof. Bork： I discovered that probably my wife played a bigger role than me. Mothers play a more important role in this area. I think it is a difficult thing to do bilingual. You have to constantly speak in a second language. Because in China the child will watch Chinese on TV and communicate with everyone in Chinese. And if you just sit down one hour a day to speak English or another language， it's not enough. Like my daughter， she speaks Chinese more often， while to learn a second language， a child just can't occasionally speak it. That's a big difference. If a child doesn't feel that she has to communicate in English or a second language， she won't practise.
Li： If a child is very smart， will it help in learning a second language？
Prof. Bork： It doesn't matter how smart a child is. It's a matter of environment. As you learn to speak English， you have to speak it everyday； you have to study five hours a day， right？ It's no difference for a child. The children can pick up a language quicker because of the environmental reasons. But they have to be in the situation to speak it.
For Chinese families， to teach bilingual is a difficult thing. Even if the parents are fluent in English， they have to speak for long hours with their child everyday. So to be bilingual is not magic.
Li： In your family do you require your daughter to only speak English with you while speaking Chinese with her mother？
Prof. Bork： In my case， there is a rule in the house that I can't speak Chinese， only English. I'm trying to get my wife only speak English to my daughter too. Because she has other people to practise her Chinese and she does her writing and other homework in Chinese. Since there is the rule， it's working better.
Li： I understand that you have an insight into the American media and you have a book on this field. Would you like to say something about it？
Prof. Bork： The media is very powerful. It affects everyone from watching TV to movies， to newspapers and magazines. The media creates images and meanings for us. In fact， I've written several articles and a book reflecting in a historical way so that you can go back analyzing how media covers facts. Then we find out that they are not covered very well or complete. In fact the information was not valuable and was always produced. I'll give you an example. Once Newt Gingrich， speaker of the House in the United States came to visit Foreign Affairs College to make a speech. I went there and listened to it. His speech wasn't clever and many of the students felt it was boring. Because he didn't give a speech to his audience， he just talked about something. There were more media people there than the students who came to see him.
Okay， the next day， the day after his talk， the Washington Post produced an article. I know that because I met the reporter and I knew for fact the reporter was there at the talk. But if you read his article， you would never know he was there. That's two different things， what Newt Gingrich talked about and what he reported Newt Gingrich talked about. I thought to myself， did you fall asleep or you didn't pay any attention？ So I went back to get the transcript and I matched the transcript to the article. Then I wrote to several of my friends to show that these two things are not necessarily the same. They don't match.
Li： That's what we are worrying about. Some foreign media coverage about China are not true to facts.
Prof. Bork： Yes. Not only American media， there are other foreign media do the same. They take something and they change it into fit what they think and what they try to project the image of China， which fits their interest. It's quite an interesting thing to look at. But you have to remember the media is owned by large corporations. There is a lot of money involved in it. It's profit motivated and ideological driven， so many of its factors are biased. And you have to bear in mind that the journalists are not object people， they have their own set of beliefs. In fact they won't have their own position if they don't protect the interest of their own company. They are only employees. If they send something back as correspondence in Beijing that their editor or boss doesn't like， they won't have their jobs. That's just true.
李昕：你在中國(guó)教書已有許多年了，你認(rèn)為這一職業(yè)最吸引你的事情是什么？
博克教授：我第一次在中國(guó)執(zhí)教是1993年至1994年間，在外交學(xué)院，后來我回了美國(guó)。1996年8月，我又回來，所以這是我二度在中國(guó)教書。
哦，我喜歡歷史，也喜歡教歷史。而運(yùn)用你知識(shí)的手段是從事教學(xué)。我盡力使學(xué)生參與，并讓他們對(duì)專題更感興趣，而且我還盡量使我提出的材料具有評(píng)論性，以激發(fā)思考。我也努力教學(xué)生們?nèi)ニ伎级皇墙邮?。你知道，如果你硬記，考試過后就會(huì)忘記。但如果我教給學(xué)生如何思考，那他們?cè)趯淼膶W(xué)習(xí)中就可用得上。
李：如果你不介意，能回想一下是什么吸引你來中國(guó)的嗎？
博克教授：嗯，我得說我對(duì)中國(guó)感興趣為時(shí)甚久。在我快6歲時(shí)，我就對(duì)中國(guó)很感興趣了。我一直很注意世界上發(fā)生的事情。我想有朝一日我會(huì)來中國(guó)的。實(shí)際上，尼克松訪華時(shí)我大概也就十三四歲，我對(duì)我媽說我將來會(huì)去中國(guó)的。你們這一代不大記得了，但那時(shí)對(duì)兩國(guó)來說都處在冷戰(zhàn)行將結(jié)束的時(shí)期，所以，說這個(gè)話可不簡(jiǎn)單啊。我那時(shí)很樂觀，而且我的樂觀被證明是很正確的，只有14歲啊。
李：據(jù)我所知，你夫人有中國(guó)文化背景，在你們的婚姻生活里經(jīng)常碰到的文化差異是什么？
博克教授：是的，我們遇到很多文化上的差異。例如，我認(rèn)為我妻子比我對(duì)女兒更有責(zé)任感。她覺得該把好多精力放在我們女兒身上。作為美國(guó)人，作為一個(gè)男人，我覺得大可不必把那么多精力放在孩子身上。我們美國(guó)人不像中國(guó)人那樣操心孩子。這是由于不同的文化經(jīng)歷。
李：在教你女兒講中、英兩種語(yǔ)言上，你有什么經(jīng)驗(yàn)可和眾多渴望把孩子培養(yǎng)成雙語(yǔ)人才的中國(guó)家長(zhǎng)分享嗎？
博克教授：我發(fā)現(xiàn)或許我妻子起的作用比我更大。母親在這方面的作用更突出。我覺得講雙語(yǔ)是件難事，因?yàn)槟愕脠?jiān)持常說第二語(yǔ)言。而在中國(guó)，孩子看電視是漢語(yǔ)的，與人交流也都用漢語(yǔ)。如果你每天只坐下來講一個(gè)小時(shí)的英語(yǔ)或別的語(yǔ)言，那是不夠的。像我女兒，她漢語(yǔ)用得較多；而學(xué)習(xí)第二語(yǔ)言，孩子就不能只是偶爾講講。這差別大了。如果孩子不覺得她非得用英語(yǔ)或第二語(yǔ)言交流，她就不練了。
李：如果一個(gè)孩子非常聰明，這對(duì)學(xué)習(xí)第二語(yǔ)言有幫助嗎？
博克教授：這與孩子有多聰明無關(guān)。這是個(gè)環(huán)境問題。當(dāng)你學(xué)講英語(yǔ)時(shí)，你得天天說，你得每天學(xué)5個(gè)鐘頭，對(duì)吧？這對(duì)孩子也不例外。孩子們能較快地學(xué)會(huì)一門語(yǔ)言是由于環(huán)境的原因，但他們得有說的語(yǔ)境。
對(duì)中國(guó)的家庭，教授雙語(yǔ)是件難事。即使父母都能講流利的英語(yǔ)，他們也得每天與孩子長(zhǎng)時(shí)間地說。所以，會(huì)講兩種語(yǔ)言可不是變戲法。
李：在你們家，你要求你女兒只用英語(yǔ)與你交談而用漢語(yǔ)與她母親講話嗎？
博克教授：我的情況是，家里有條規(guī)定，即我不會(huì)講漢語(yǔ)，只能說英語(yǔ)。我正試著讓我妻子對(duì)女兒也只講英語(yǔ)。因?yàn)榕畠河袆e人來練漢語(yǔ)，而且她寫作文及其他家庭作業(yè)也用漢語(yǔ)。自從定了這條規(guī)則，成效好多了。
李：我聽說你對(duì)美國(guó)媒體很有見解，而且在這個(gè)領(lǐng)域還寫了一本書。你能就此談些什么嗎？
博克教授：媒體勢(shì)力很大。它通過電影電視、報(bào)紙雜志影響到每個(gè)人。媒體為我們創(chuàng)造形象和意義。事實(shí)上，我已寫了數(shù)篇文章及一本專著，從歷史著眼，這樣你就能追溯分析媒體是怎樣報(bào)道客觀事實(shí)的。然后，我們發(fā)現(xiàn)那些客觀事實(shí)并沒被很好或全面地報(bào)道出來。實(shí)際上其信息并無所值而且常常是編造的。我給你舉個(gè)例子。有一次，美國(guó)眾議院議長(zhǎng)金里奇訪問外交學(xué)院并做了個(gè)演講。我去了，也聽了那個(gè)演講。他的那個(gè)演講并不怎么好，許多學(xué)生覺得很乏味，因?yàn)樗⒉皇窃谙蚵牨娮鲅葜v，他只是在談?wù)撃呈?。在?chǎng)的媒體界人士要比學(xué)生多，而學(xué)生只是想來看看他是何等樣人。
好，次日，他講話后《華盛頓郵報(bào)》造出篇文章。我知道這件事是因?yàn)槲遗龅搅四莻€(gè)記者，我確知那個(gè)記者在場(chǎng)并聽了講話。但如果你讀那篇文章，你絕對(duì)不會(huì)覺得他在場(chǎng)。那是兩個(gè)截然不同的東西：金里奇談的和記者所報(bào)道的金里奇講話。我心里想，你是睡著了還是根本沒注意聽？于是我回去找了講話的文字記錄，拿記錄對(duì)照那篇文章。之后，我寫信給我的幾個(gè)朋友，讓他們看看這兩個(gè)東西，肯定是不一樣的，根本對(duì)不上。
李：這正是我們所擔(dān)心的。一些外國(guó)媒體對(duì)中國(guó)的報(bào)道與事實(shí)不符。
博克教授：是這樣，不止美國(guó)媒體，有些別的外國(guó)媒體也這么干。他們抓住一點(diǎn)，并把它變成符合他們想的及他們?cè)噲D設(shè)計(jì)的中國(guó)形象，這與他們的利益相符?？纯催@個(gè)倒是件挺有意思的事。但你得記住媒體是大公司所有的。其中牽涉到很多金錢。它是受利潤(rùn)促動(dòng)和意識(shí)形態(tài)驅(qū)使的，必然帶有很多偏見性的因素。你還必須記住，記者們不是客觀人士，他們有自己的一套信仰。實(shí)際上，如果他們不維護(hù)其公司的利益，他們就不會(huì)有自己的職位。他們只是雇員。如果他們從北京發(fā)回去的稿件，不合其編輯或老板的口味，他們就會(huì)失去飯碗。事實(shí)確是如此。
Prof. Bork： I first taught here in China during 1993 to 1994 in Foreign Affairs College and then I went back to United States. In 1996， I came back in August so this is the second time I taught in China.
Well， I enjoy history and I enjoy teaching history. So the best way to use your knowledge is to teach. I try to get students involved and let them become more interested in a subject matter and plus I try to present my material in a critical way to stimulate thinking. I also try to teach students how to think instead of accept. You know if you memorize something， after the examination you're gonna forget it. But if I teach students how to think， that's tool they can use in their future learning.
Li： If you don't mind could you recall what attracted you to China？
Prof. Bork： Well， I'd say I've been interested in China for a very long time. When I was about six years old， I was just interested in China. I always followed world events. I thought I would come to China one day. In fact when Nixon came to China I was about thirteen or fourteen years old. I told my mother that I was going to come to China. Your generation doesn't remember this， but that was cold-war period going towards a close for both countries. So saying that was a big thing. I was very optimistic and my optimism proved to be pretty right as a fourteen years old.
Li： I understand your wife has a Chinese culture background. What cultural differences do you usually encounter in your marriage life？
Prof. Bork： Yeah， we encounter many cultural differences. For example， I think my wife feels more responsible about our daughter than I do. She feels that she'd put a lot of efforts on our daughter. As an American and as a man too， I don't necessarily feel that I have to put that much energy into my child. We American don't put our efforts into children the same way as Chinese do. That's out of different cultural experiences.
Li： In teaching your daughter to speak both Chinese and English， what experience could you share with the large number of Chinese parents who are eager to bring up their children bilingually？
Prof. Bork： I discovered that probably my wife played a bigger role than me. Mothers play a more important role in this area. I think it is a difficult thing to do bilingual. You have to constantly speak in a second language. Because in China the child will watch Chinese on TV and communicate with everyone in Chinese. And if you just sit down one hour a day to speak English or another language， it's not enough. Like my daughter， she speaks Chinese more often， while to learn a second language， a child just can't occasionally speak it. That's a big difference. If a child doesn't feel that she has to communicate in English or a second language， she won't practise.
Li： If a child is very smart， will it help in learning a second language？
Prof. Bork： It doesn't matter how smart a child is. It's a matter of environment. As you learn to speak English， you have to speak it everyday； you have to study five hours a day， right？ It's no difference for a child. The children can pick up a language quicker because of the environmental reasons. But they have to be in the situation to speak it.
For Chinese families， to teach bilingual is a difficult thing. Even if the parents are fluent in English， they have to speak for long hours with their child everyday. So to be bilingual is not magic.
Li： In your family do you require your daughter to only speak English with you while speaking Chinese with her mother？
Prof. Bork： In my case， there is a rule in the house that I can't speak Chinese， only English. I'm trying to get my wife only speak English to my daughter too. Because she has other people to practise her Chinese and she does her writing and other homework in Chinese. Since there is the rule， it's working better.
Li： I understand that you have an insight into the American media and you have a book on this field. Would you like to say something about it？
Prof. Bork： The media is very powerful. It affects everyone from watching TV to movies， to newspapers and magazines. The media creates images and meanings for us. In fact， I've written several articles and a book reflecting in a historical way so that you can go back analyzing how media covers facts. Then we find out that they are not covered very well or complete. In fact the information was not valuable and was always produced. I'll give you an example. Once Newt Gingrich， speaker of the House in the United States came to visit Foreign Affairs College to make a speech. I went there and listened to it. His speech wasn't clever and many of the students felt it was boring. Because he didn't give a speech to his audience， he just talked about something. There were more media people there than the students who came to see him.
Okay， the next day， the day after his talk， the Washington Post produced an article. I know that because I met the reporter and I knew for fact the reporter was there at the talk. But if you read his article， you would never know he was there. That's two different things， what Newt Gingrich talked about and what he reported Newt Gingrich talked about. I thought to myself， did you fall asleep or you didn't pay any attention？ So I went back to get the transcript and I matched the transcript to the article. Then I wrote to several of my friends to show that these two things are not necessarily the same. They don't match.
Li： That's what we are worrying about. Some foreign media coverage about China are not true to facts.
Prof. Bork： Yes. Not only American media， there are other foreign media do the same. They take something and they change it into fit what they think and what they try to project the image of China， which fits their interest. It's quite an interesting thing to look at. But you have to remember the media is owned by large corporations. There is a lot of money involved in it. It's profit motivated and ideological driven， so many of its factors are biased. And you have to bear in mind that the journalists are not object people， they have their own set of beliefs. In fact they won't have their own position if they don't protect the interest of their own company. They are only employees. If they send something back as correspondence in Beijing that their editor or boss doesn't like， they won't have their jobs. That's just true.
李昕：你在中國(guó)教書已有許多年了，你認(rèn)為這一職業(yè)最吸引你的事情是什么？
博克教授：我第一次在中國(guó)執(zhí)教是1993年至1994年間，在外交學(xué)院，后來我回了美國(guó)。1996年8月，我又回來，所以這是我二度在中國(guó)教書。
哦，我喜歡歷史，也喜歡教歷史。而運(yùn)用你知識(shí)的手段是從事教學(xué)。我盡力使學(xué)生參與，并讓他們對(duì)專題更感興趣，而且我還盡量使我提出的材料具有評(píng)論性，以激發(fā)思考。我也努力教學(xué)生們?nèi)ニ伎级皇墙邮?。你知道，如果你硬記，考試過后就會(huì)忘記。但如果我教給學(xué)生如何思考，那他們?cè)趯淼膶W(xué)習(xí)中就可用得上。
李：如果你不介意，能回想一下是什么吸引你來中國(guó)的嗎？
博克教授：嗯，我得說我對(duì)中國(guó)感興趣為時(shí)甚久。在我快6歲時(shí)，我就對(duì)中國(guó)很感興趣了。我一直很注意世界上發(fā)生的事情。我想有朝一日我會(huì)來中國(guó)的。實(shí)際上，尼克松訪華時(shí)我大概也就十三四歲，我對(duì)我媽說我將來會(huì)去中國(guó)的。你們這一代不大記得了，但那時(shí)對(duì)兩國(guó)來說都處在冷戰(zhàn)行將結(jié)束的時(shí)期，所以，說這個(gè)話可不簡(jiǎn)單啊。我那時(shí)很樂觀，而且我的樂觀被證明是很正確的，只有14歲啊。
李：據(jù)我所知，你夫人有中國(guó)文化背景，在你們的婚姻生活里經(jīng)常碰到的文化差異是什么？
博克教授：是的，我們遇到很多文化上的差異。例如，我認(rèn)為我妻子比我對(duì)女兒更有責(zé)任感。她覺得該把好多精力放在我們女兒身上。作為美國(guó)人，作為一個(gè)男人，我覺得大可不必把那么多精力放在孩子身上。我們美國(guó)人不像中國(guó)人那樣操心孩子。這是由于不同的文化經(jīng)歷。
李：在教你女兒講中、英兩種語(yǔ)言上，你有什么經(jīng)驗(yàn)可和眾多渴望把孩子培養(yǎng)成雙語(yǔ)人才的中國(guó)家長(zhǎng)分享嗎？
博克教授：我發(fā)現(xiàn)或許我妻子起的作用比我更大。母親在這方面的作用更突出。我覺得講雙語(yǔ)是件難事，因?yàn)槟愕脠?jiān)持常說第二語(yǔ)言。而在中國(guó)，孩子看電視是漢語(yǔ)的，與人交流也都用漢語(yǔ)。如果你每天只坐下來講一個(gè)小時(shí)的英語(yǔ)或別的語(yǔ)言，那是不夠的。像我女兒，她漢語(yǔ)用得較多；而學(xué)習(xí)第二語(yǔ)言，孩子就不能只是偶爾講講。這差別大了。如果孩子不覺得她非得用英語(yǔ)或第二語(yǔ)言交流，她就不練了。
李：如果一個(gè)孩子非常聰明，這對(duì)學(xué)習(xí)第二語(yǔ)言有幫助嗎？
博克教授：這與孩子有多聰明無關(guān)。這是個(gè)環(huán)境問題。當(dāng)你學(xué)講英語(yǔ)時(shí)，你得天天說，你得每天學(xué)5個(gè)鐘頭，對(duì)吧？這對(duì)孩子也不例外。孩子們能較快地學(xué)會(huì)一門語(yǔ)言是由于環(huán)境的原因，但他們得有說的語(yǔ)境。
對(duì)中國(guó)的家庭，教授雙語(yǔ)是件難事。即使父母都能講流利的英語(yǔ)，他們也得每天與孩子長(zhǎng)時(shí)間地說。所以，會(huì)講兩種語(yǔ)言可不是變戲法。
李：在你們家，你要求你女兒只用英語(yǔ)與你交談而用漢語(yǔ)與她母親講話嗎？
博克教授：我的情況是，家里有條規(guī)定，即我不會(huì)講漢語(yǔ)，只能說英語(yǔ)。我正試著讓我妻子對(duì)女兒也只講英語(yǔ)。因?yàn)榕畠河袆e人來練漢語(yǔ)，而且她寫作文及其他家庭作業(yè)也用漢語(yǔ)。自從定了這條規(guī)則，成效好多了。
李：我聽說你對(duì)美國(guó)媒體很有見解，而且在這個(gè)領(lǐng)域還寫了一本書。你能就此談些什么嗎？
博克教授：媒體勢(shì)力很大。它通過電影電視、報(bào)紙雜志影響到每個(gè)人。媒體為我們創(chuàng)造形象和意義。事實(shí)上，我已寫了數(shù)篇文章及一本專著，從歷史著眼，這樣你就能追溯分析媒體是怎樣報(bào)道客觀事實(shí)的。然后，我們發(fā)現(xiàn)那些客觀事實(shí)并沒被很好或全面地報(bào)道出來。實(shí)際上其信息并無所值而且常常是編造的。我給你舉個(gè)例子。有一次，美國(guó)眾議院議長(zhǎng)金里奇訪問外交學(xué)院并做了個(gè)演講。我去了，也聽了那個(gè)演講。他的那個(gè)演講并不怎么好，許多學(xué)生覺得很乏味，因?yàn)樗⒉皇窃谙蚵牨娮鲅葜v，他只是在談?wù)撃呈?。在?chǎng)的媒體界人士要比學(xué)生多，而學(xué)生只是想來看看他是何等樣人。
好，次日，他講話后《華盛頓郵報(bào)》造出篇文章。我知道這件事是因?yàn)槲遗龅搅四莻€(gè)記者，我確知那個(gè)記者在場(chǎng)并聽了講話。但如果你讀那篇文章，你絕對(duì)不會(huì)覺得他在場(chǎng)。那是兩個(gè)截然不同的東西：金里奇談的和記者所報(bào)道的金里奇講話。我心里想，你是睡著了還是根本沒注意聽？于是我回去找了講話的文字記錄，拿記錄對(duì)照那篇文章。之后，我寫信給我的幾個(gè)朋友，讓他們看看這兩個(gè)東西，肯定是不一樣的，根本對(duì)不上。
李：這正是我們所擔(dān)心的。一些外國(guó)媒體對(duì)中國(guó)的報(bào)道與事實(shí)不符。
博克教授：是這樣，不止美國(guó)媒體，有些別的外國(guó)媒體也這么干。他們抓住一點(diǎn)，并把它變成符合他們想的及他們?cè)噲D設(shè)計(jì)的中國(guó)形象，這與他們的利益相符?？纯催@個(gè)倒是件挺有意思的事。但你得記住媒體是大公司所有的。其中牽涉到很多金錢。它是受利潤(rùn)促動(dòng)和意識(shí)形態(tài)驅(qū)使的，必然帶有很多偏見性的因素。你還必須記住，記者們不是客觀人士，他們有自己的一套信仰。實(shí)際上，如果他們不維護(hù)其公司的利益，他們就不會(huì)有自己的職位。他們只是雇員。如果他們從北京發(fā)回去的稿件，不合其編輯或老板的口味，他們就會(huì)失去飯碗。事實(shí)確是如此。